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Reply to @sun@shitposter.world
Wanderer atop the sea of clouds or whatever@WandererUber@poa.st (2026-07-29 23:01:59)
@sun @lain former is grammar, latter is structured output
it is the mechanism that I meant, yes. Problem with grammar is that it is dog slow when doing stuff like that, apparently. Plus token!=word so tough to implement. 
Also, like I said, model does not "see" that you're doing this, internally.
---Reply---
Blurry Moon@sun@shitposter.world (2026-07-29 23:05:52)
@WandererUber @lain yeah that's correct it just tries to ram it through the grammar-shaped hole haphazardly until it fits, and sometimes that's extremely slow or fails and times out